From Transactional to Transformational

Unlocking Human Potential

We talk a lot about culture, connection, and leadership — but what if the biggest shifts in how we lead aren’t philosophical at all… but biological?

In this episode, I sit down with Rick Mask, organizational culture strategist and author of The Psychology of Leadership, to explore how neuroscience is transforming the way organizations understand people. This isn’t just about brain science. It’s about how human beings work, how they respond, and how leaders can finally bridge the gap between intention and impact.

Today’s workplace is overwhelmed, overstretched, and overstimulated. Leaders are being asked to hit impossible goals while their teams navigate burnout, disconnection, and uncertainty. Neuroscience doesn’t solve all of that — but it gives us a blueprint for why people behave the way they do and what leaders can actually do about it.

Below are the biggest insights from the conversation, along with practical shifts you can implement now to build a more connected, human-centered workplace.

Tease Key Insights

• Leaders are struggling with connection now more than ever before. Today’s pace of work is overwhelming our nervous systems. Rick breaks down the neuroscience behind why even well-intentioned leaders disconnect under pressure.

• We need psychological safety. It’s not about being “nice.” It’s about understanding how certainty, clarity, and calm rewire the brain for trust and performance.

• Burnout, overwhelm, and quiet quitting aren’t character issues… they’re brain responses. And they can be prevented.

  
  

Why this Matters?

This conversation with Rick Mask is a reminder that leadership isn’t just about strategy or structure — it’s about people. And people are driven by biology, emotion, and belonging more than we admit.

If you want to build a healthier culture, improve performance, or create a place where people can do the best work of their lives… start by understanding how the human brain actually works.

You don’t need a neuroscience degree to lead well.

You just need curiosity, consistency, and the willingness to connect.

Listen Now

If leaders want performance, they must invest in people. And that investment starts with understanding how the brain works — including their own.

Dr. Rick Mask

Leadership Strategy Consultant

Dr. Rick L. Mask is a leadership strategy consultant, dean, adjunct professor and the author of Social Capital 2.0. For over a decade Dr. Mask has been leading and developing teams through skills gained in the classroom and in the field. Dr. Mask focuses his work of growing human capital within organizations by utilizing neuroscience, the constructs of social capital and the principles presented in The Leadership Challenge. Dr. Mask guides organizations to an understanding of what it takes to lead others through the removal of personal barriers and the creation of true human connection.

Full Episode

Megan:

Hello and welcome to Culture Conversations, the podcast where we explore the people side of work. I'm your host, Megan Robinson. For years, I've found myself deep in discussions about workplace engagement with industry experts. Now I get to share this wisdom with all leaders, new and experienced, on their journeys to build cultures that maximize potential. We spend so much of our lives at work. Let's make it a place where our teams can grow and succeed. Hello, and welcome to Culture Conversations. My name is Megan Robinson, and I am so excited for today's episode. We are going to talk all about social capital. As I was prepping beforehand, really excited not only to learn more about social capital, but to get to talk to such an expert in the field. I know I'm going to learn a ton. I'm sure you will as well. But let me first introduce our guest today. It is Dr. Rick Mask. He's a leadership and strategy consultant dean, adjunct professor, and the author of Social Capital 2.0. For over a decade, Dr. Mask has been leading and developing teams through skills gained in the classroom and in the field. My personal favorite is when you start bridging that theoretical with the applicable. Dr. Mask also focuses his work on growing human capital within organizations by utilizing neuroscience that constructs a social capital and principles presented in the Leadership Challenge. Excellent book. Dr. Mask guides organizations to an understanding of what it takes to lead others through the removal of personal barriers and the creation of true human connection. Welcome, Dr. Rick Mask.

Rick:

Thank you so much, Megan. It's so good to be here. I appreciate you sharing this space with me and making time for me.

Megan:

Of course. I remember from our very first conversation, we dove deep into this topic. Your passion just exuded from the very first. We met in one of those big networking group conversations like, I need to learn more from this person. He has nothing but brilliance to say, thoughtful research, very, very contemplative on the topic, and so much to learn from you. So I just want to dive in on, how are you defining social capital?

Rick:

Thank you, Megan. I want you to know that I think I equally have as much to learn from you. So I'm so glad to be here with you once again. Yes, so social capital, it's been defined in many ways by many different people that I believe have probably spent more time with the topic than I have and have spent, I guess, more of their life dedicated to the topic. But simply put, it's just the value derived from human relationships. And that seems very simplistic, but I think beyond that, just simple definition, for me, it's taken on a new life through conversations with peers around the globe to really look at it as that potential. So it's not just the construct that's being measured, and I have taken the time to measure social capital. through, you know, as a construct in itself, but it's really about the potential. You and I being here together, all of the potential that we have to do things, good things, bad things, whatever, you know, it's that. It's, you know, and if we add a third person into this equation with their skillset that they would bring to the table, we would, you know, increase our potential exponentially. So it's just really understanding that, the potential that's there for what we could do is really what I'm excited about versus the construct being measurable itself.

Megan:

So it's more of what it means rather than creating a limited definition or a specific variable value from it.

Rick:

Yeah, it is. And like I said, I've measured it as a construct. So, you know, I, and I use, a pretty standard model that a lot of people have used before where I look at relational capital, cognitive capital, and structural capital as the three elements of it. And there is plenty of research out there and there's plenty of different ways that that model has been utilized in many different industries and everything. And I love that. And I think that's great. I think that with human beings as individuals being so unique that these pre-constructed models that we are using and they have their own merit, they're great. I really think that a further examination of the relational capital element is really what I'm wanting to focus on because I think in that we can start looking at more of the potential aspects of it.

Megan:

And I think that the potential is both what it sounds like excites you from that and where there's the real opportunity and potential, right? It's kind of the same thing. Like there's opportunity in the potential, a little redundant there, but it's also bringing that into reality. And how do you take something that's that potential or that possibility and make it tangible?

Rick:

For me, it's really trying to understand what's going on with human relationships more broadly. So we see ourselves right now in a loneliness epidemic. And I wrote an article on it back in, I believe, 2018, 2019. And then I went to revise that article this year. And the loneliness epidemic has continued. It hasn't just stopped or, you know, COVID had its impacts on it, but the numbers are still there. it still shows that people are self-isolating at an alarming rate. They're choosing modes of connection that aren't truly connecting because their brain is telling them through these quick, these dopamine releases that they are connecting even though they're not. And I think where the gap is, is we have all of these different modes of hyper-connectivity, technological connectivity. And I think that we haven't created a playbook on how to actually utilize those to foster true human connection. We default. Oh, go ahead.

Megan:

I'm sorry. Now I want to say, what's an example of these connection that's almost like a fake connection?

Rick:

Yeah, absolutely. Well, our brain, just as bias works, we are defaulting to efficiency. You and I both are really focused on efficiency. We've talked about that recently. So when we're trying to connect with anything, we're trying to do anything. We're trying to do it in the most efficient mode possible. So as an example, I'm going to make up a person that doesn't exist. My Uncle Jimbo. My Uncle Jimbo, you know, if I wanted to check in with him, I could do a bunch of different things. I could go see him. I could write him a letter. I could text him. I could call him. I could video call him. Or I can get on Facebook or some other social media platform. I can say, you know, I wonder how Jimbo's doing. And Jimbo might've posted pictures in the last couple of days of going to an amusement park or whatever. And I know Jimbo's doing just fine. Went to the amusement park with his family. We had a great time. I'll go like that photo. And now I know Uncle Jimbo's okay. I've connected with him through this asynchronous, Jimbo might respond, might not, but I wanted to check on Jimbo. I was able to check on Jimbo and I got to let Jimbo know I checked on him by liking the photo. Jimbo might see that or might not on the other side, but there's no connection happening there. I got the dopamine release though. My concern was, is Jimbo okay? My concern was answered that Jimbo is okay. You can see that I'm good with that. Um, but I've not actually connected at all. And in our busy schedules, some people experiencing situations where they're working multiple jobs, um, that is their primary mode of connectivity. At the end of the week, they feel just as lonely as they did before they did any of that. They didn't really actually connect.

Megan:

I may have a terrible analogy for this, but I think of one-on-one meetings in organizations. They have a really effective one-on-one meeting with your manager. Ideally, the employee would drive the agenda for that. You would talk about personal growth, needs, challenges, whatever that other person really needs from it. but what actually happens is you get more of a status update. People say, I have one-on-ones all the time and they just run through a status report of what projects or what work they're doing from. They got the updates specifically on what the, the information that they needed, but they missed a piece of connection.

Rick:

Yeah, absolutely. Like how transactional is that? And that's a great example. I think that happens a lot. Um, you know, and, and, I've seen people try to argue the point that even in the digital space, that it can replicate the presence of a human being, like being face to face with someone. There are so many things that don't happen and can't happen in a digital space. If you are truly engaging someone, you're truly connecting with someone, conversating about shared topics, and you're in the same space, you're breathing the same air, you might be eating the same food. You might be enjoying the same comfortable couch. Your breathing might actually link up. You might be able to actually touch each other and that be what is needed to progress the conversation. You know, there's so many things that human beings do that are not verbal communication. And right now we can see each other from the shoulders up. So we're missing 80% of the story. So there's no way that I'm ever going to buy into anything truly replicating face-to-face communication. And somebody might even argue with me about virtual reality. That's great. You still can't do some of the things I just said.

Megan:

I love the example of that breathing, that when you start sinking someone's breath in and you do that, and professional, and I would say a lot of personal examples where that does start to mimic each other's body language and a lot of that mirroring activity. But I love that you only get what I'm showing you from the neck up. You don't know that my legs are crossed or if I'm fiddling my fingers or if I'm sweating profusely. Yeah.

Rick:

Yeah. And we, due to all the hyper-connectivity, due to efficiency, due to everything, We have the ability to be more, quote unquote, connected to others than we ever have. But we're missing so much.

Megan:

Could we say that we have more information? Because that's what I'm hearing is you're getting data. You're checking boxes. Is that what are we having? Because it's not necessarily a connection, but we are having something.

Rick:

We are having something, yeah. We're definitely able to share. And I think that's why if you look at social capital as a construct, we can share cognitive capital, we can share structural capital in the space, but there are elements of relational capital we cannot engage with.

Megan:

So do you think that our social capital is declining?

Rick:

Yeah, absolutely. I think just in general, relational capital, the deep, meaningful human connections is declining. I think we have a massive, network of weak ties. I think we have a massive network of shallow transactional relationships. And I'm really fighting for the deep intentional connecting relationships. There is something there that is beyond transaction. There is something there that is beyond surface level. It's something that our body needs. Um, and I just want to try to encourage people to engage with it. And I want to try to, like I said, try to give people a playbook for what that could look like to create and, and, um, foster, uh, and continue just deep, meaningful connections.

Megan:

Also, there's, there's kind of two pieces of it of, you know, what's wrong with not having it. Why, why is that a problem? Essentially? I'll start there.

Rick:

Yeah, absolutely. Well, I am not a neuroscientist by any stretch of the imagination. But what I do know is that it's alarming to me in our society, the issues we deal with with mental health and the increase in those. It's alarming to me in my society that there is a reported loneliness epidemic. There is numerous things that bother me personally, and I'm assuming that these things are shared with others as well. I also think that the lack of these deep meaningful relationships is driving issues we're seeing with voting. I think it's driving issues that we're seeing with concern and care for different segments of our population. I think it's driving issues that we're seeing around acceptance and understanding of different segments of our population. I don't see those things getting better without the intentional commitment. All those things are troubling to me. And then me personally, I want to connect. I'm being way more intentional now than I have been. I just want to connect with more people intentionally and deeply.

Megan:

Is it about the volume of connection or the depth of connection?

Rick:

Great question. So we've got numbers on that. There's numbers. I think the big one, I can't even, to be honest, recall where it comes from. But it's stated that you can have five really deep connections. You can know five people really well. Dunbar, Dunbar's measure, yeah. You can know 15 people moderately well and be close with them. And then, you know, it's like 150 people you can know lightly. I think that if we look at Gottman and some Gottman's work, that there is evidence to support that really quick, meaningful, interconnected bids for connection can have as much of an impact as really long, deep conversations. So to say that if you and I were very close and we had spent quite a lot of time together, that inside jokes, bids of common connection, if we really like to touch each other's hands or whatever the thing is, could be physical, could be verbal, you get the same response to some of those things as you do really long, deep conversations. So that being said, I really think that if we get past the fact that we all think we're way too busy for connection, I think we could take that five and expound upon that in the event that we're all close enough to share in the long-winded conversations of depth and the short pieces I think that we have capacity for more than five. But I would say at the very least, we're talking about quality and quantity, like five really deep connections would be absolutely amazing for everyone. And I would challenge people to really think about if they even have five right now.

Megan:

I'm mentally trying to count mine. I'm kind of hearing you blend these two together and I'm going to have my total off the cuff theory. it's almost taking that five and rotating them at different aspects. Because I almost feel like you had five, the five you had when you were a teenager is very different than the five you had in your 20s or your 30s. Some of those people may be the same, but there may be some people that have rotated in and out. But I'll say, I still talk to a good friend of mine from middle school and high school, and you pick up right where you were a little bit. Some of those inside jokes are still there, it's those people that you almost don't skip a beat with. You haven't talked to them for six months, but you still have that connection. And so it's almost how do you start developing those five deep and continuing to evolve them and float them through so that at the end, and I'm using Dunbar's numbers, right, that 150 were all part of that five. Like you worked on that relationship so that it's a very different type of 150 rather than Oh yeah, I used to be on this team with someone or, oh yeah, I went to school with them or, oh yeah, they're my neighbor.

Rick:

I absolutely love that as a, as a potential for us, um, you know, and where we can go as a society. I think that that's absolutely wonderful. And to consider that, you know, I feel like I'm on the sixth version or seventh version of myself or whatever. I have those people from the different versions, like you said, of myself. Um, and you can, tend to pick up where you left off. I think one thing I will note about those connection points, when people forget or people are not there to receive your bid in the manner you give it, you can also think about how detrimental that can be, how odd that feels. When you come to me as a close friend of mine with an inside joke and it doesn't land, I don't remember it doesn't hit and how awkward that can make you feel. And I just like, like to point that out is like, it's a delicate thing. Like, human connection and intentionality is very important. And I've just, through my own personal journey, I've learned that because I've had to really, honestly, through all the different variants of myself, question, as I've gone along, who am I now?

Megan:

I think it looks at that 50% of the equation that you can control. Connection, is innately outside of your control, just as much as it is within your control. And that's that challenge.

Rick:

Absolutely. Because, you know, we own our intent and the person receiving the information owns their reaction. I think it's just knowing ourself well enough to be able to hold space for whatever that reaction might be and to not take it personally. And I think that's, that's a challenge in itself too, but.

Megan:

So how do you think this applies to more of a professional or organizational context? Because, I mean, this is one of those topics that goes from personal to professional and back and forth. It's, as you mentioned, an epidemic across all of our lives.

Rick:

Yeah, well, it goes back to something you said, actually, which is those check-in meetings and how transactional they can be in nature. To get out of that transactional nature of the conversation, even in the workplace, you have to still approach things with that intentionality. The intentionality may not be, well, this is going to be my friend, or this is going to be my family. I know there are workplaces that push this concept of, we're all a big family. And I'm one of those people that stands up and like, actually, we're not. Actually, you're my colleagues. You're not coming over for my birthday, and you don't watch my children on the weekends when I go out on a date. So no, we're not family. We're definitely colleagues, but you can approach colleagues with intentionality as well. And I think if you're in a situation where you're leading people, know that you are responsible for driving that intentionality with them and setting a tone where they know that they are saved and setting a tone they can trust in what you're saying. And just, you know, to the leadership challenge, like, you know, walking the walk, talking the talk, be who you say you are and be consistent with them. I've seen leadership devolve over time and I don't know if it's just a lack of understanding the models or a lack of concern, but I have seen leaders that are, it seems almost purposefully inconsistent. If you're purposely inconsistent and you're showing up with your people and some days you're really happy and some days you're just off the wall, you're angry, creating that type of environment actually causes a state of trauma for the people that you lead and you form a connection. but it's more resemblant of like Stockholm syndrome than it is to actual trusting leadership relationship. So understanding ourselves, going in and being consistent, being a trusted source and being a leader to our people, you know, that's the way we promote intentionality as a colleague there, as a leader there. And then across the organization, wherever you work, you want to come to your colleagues with that same intentionality and be consistent, be someone who can understand their self, and attempt to your best, your ability to hold space for other people so that they can feel comfortable around you. Trust and... Go ahead.

Megan:

Sorry. I'm so excited. I'm like, ah.

Rick:

Yeah, go ahead.

Megan:

A lot of what you're talking about is developing that psychological safety at an organization. And without that psychological safety, you don't have an environment that will breed any sort of connection. So it's kind of like, can you set the right environment so that you are able to have that connection? And then there's a piece of that consistency. that I'm hearing is so, so, so key with that, with all that consistency. It doesn't create the environment. It doesn't create the opportunity to build it. And I'm thinking about a conversation I was having with someone very specific, actually a coaching client. And for them, having those boundaries between personal, professional, or that professional connection, it doesn't have to be all lovey-dovey and I know all about your kids and your family. That's not necessarily the type of connection that we're talking about. I mean, it can, and I think it gets, that's the pendulum swinging all the way to the other side of things.

Rick:

Yeah, no, absolutely. Yeah. I think, you know, you, you have a responsibility to the people that you're connecting with to set boundaries that are comfortable for you. Um, you know, I have different categories of individuals that I interact with. I have my colleagues, I have those that report to me, I have friends, I have family, I have partners, I have children, all those things. Every one of those categories has boundaries that I set that are comfortable for me. So I just come to the table knowing what those boundaries are, conveying them to those individuals. And I let them know, you know, from the get go, like how I'm going to be there for them, kind of set the stage. And I try my best to stay as consistent that as possible. I am a human being. I am working on myself. I have variants. I ask, I come to the table. If I do show up in an inconsistent manner, I just simply request, When I interact with a person, I recognize that I've been inconsistent. I try to let them know up to my boundary what's going on with me. And I just ask that they please give me some grace in that moment. Because we're all human beings, and I'm not going to sit here and act like I just show up and I'm the epitome of consistency. But there is a formula there. There's a formula there to promote connection and you can implement boundaries and still be connected up to that boundary. There's nothing wrong with that. And they can have boundaries too. They may have boundaries as a work colleague or report too, and that's perfectly fine. I've had people that reported to me that would share absolutely nothing, but they would let me know because I have categories. You know, I always tell them it's your health first, your family's health second, and then work. And they would just say, I need to take today off my health. Got it. I don't care what else it is. That's fine with me. And then I've had people that would sit there for an hour crying to me, telling me all the things that are going wrong and they need time off. Not that I require it, but they just needed somebody to vent to. That's fine. I will listen to them. I will hold space for them. It doesn't counteract any boundary I have. So yeah, it's just good communication, good consistency, building trust. You do that with enough people cross-functionally across the organization. You have people that you can rely on in time of need.

Megan:

Well, and I love that that helps with so much self-awareness is really what you're bringing to that party. And that's a lot of that self-work. It's a lot of that self-leadership that I'll talk about. Without that, it is very hard to bring your 50% to that connection equation. And I don't know if it's a 50-50. That's probably for another conversation. But what you're bringing to it is within that, and you're letting the other person bring their portion to it so that then you're being able to meet so it's effective. And I think specifically thinking of the other person, they want to have those very, very tight boundaries. They're very not comfortable sharing anything personal. And it doesn't take being personal in order to build a connection. It takes holding that space. It takes understanding your own awareness, having your own emotional intelligence, giving someone the time and the energy that they need to be successful.

Rick:

Absolutely. You give a proper boundary. You let people know how you're going to show up, and you be consistent in that. You're trustworthy. You don't have to go overboard. I told you how I was going to be. I'm being that for you. And you can count on me to continue to be that for you.

Megan:

This has been such a fabulous conversation. Thank you so much, Dr. Rithmas. What final words or insights or tactical or pieces that someone can implement today or this week, this month to build more connection?

Rick:

As counterintuitive as this feels, pour into yourself, pour into understanding yourself. And then when you interact with others, they will bring their true intentional self as well.

Megan:

Beautifully put. I know I learned a lot on what that looks like to build connection. It's definitely aligning with a lot of the work I know I'm doing, my clients are doing, a lot of people are doing, particularly now in this time of understanding that self-awareness and that self-management and building those pieces up. So thank you so much for the lovely conversation. I know you have a book coming out, I'll say soon-ish. If you haven't already read it, we will put it in the show notes. Social Capital 2.0 is the book that you have read, and I know you're doing a lot of research in the future You're very data-driven in that. And as you continue to develop new constructs and tools for this social capital, I think you mentioned that people can connect with you on LinkedIn. That's the best way to stay involved, understand, and hopefully support some of that research. Yes, absolutely.

Rick:

Thank you.

Megan:

Of course. So we'll put that in the show notes as well. Please do connect with Dr. Mask. And thank you so much for this conversation. If you have anything else that you want to learn about social capital, please reach out to him. He is, as you can imagine, open to connection.

Rick:

Yes, very much so. Thank you so much. Thank you.

Megan:

Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Culture Conversations. I'm your host, Megan Robinson, founder of eLeader Experience, a professional leadership development company. Today, we shared actionable ideas to navigate the evolving workplace landscape, compete for talent, and build cultures that maximize potential. If you're looking to learn more about how to support your organization's leaders, you can learn more about our work at eLeaderExperience.com. Now get out there and contribute positively to your organization's culture with your own conversations.